In our discussion re: Disrupt Spells, Runeslinger and I had a bit of a discussion about one Sorcerer being able to cut another one off from the Weave, especially vis-a-vis the Difficulty 6 spell "Block Weave – You can block the connection between a caster and the Weave, making it impossible to cast spells" (pp. 147). We agreed that this should be debated here and he has given me permission to post his argument. I am sure he will chime in soon.

I can see this as a metaphysical barrier slammed between the target and the Weave and I am fine with that. Runeslinger, on the other hand, doesn't see how this could function. He mentioned in our debate that a Beguiler could make you think you cannot perceive the Weave, or that a Necromancer could be kept somewhere lifeless (although I dispute that...) but "without changing the nature of the caster, how can they [the target of the spell] be kept from reaching the energy of the Weave?" implying as he does that since the Weave is 'everywhere' how can one be cut off from it?

Any thoughts?

I am not so sure I have thoughts on this one other than those expressed above and just a general.... ummm - I have a problem with this one, feeling.

There's certainly nothing wrong with deciding as a GM that blocking someone from the Weave isn't feasible. But I assume what you're looking for are possible explanations as to how that would happen.

It's been established that the connection to the Weave can be warped or distorted (hence the current situation vis a vis Burn) and that not all people can access it. Also, Talents such as Burn Reduction imply that a magic-user can affect how the flow of the Weave reaches the caster, or perhaps how the caster "touches" it.

So, maybe blocking the Weave is not so much a matter of keeping magic from getting to the target so much as "jamming" his access to it, making it more difficult for him to draw the energy and use it.

Hope that helps.

Hullo, 18Puppies,



Interesting question, but...

I will say that nothing in the game about magic and the nature of the Weave precludes the actual idea that a spellcaster can't block someone from the Weave. Think of the Weave as being like magical threads in the air that the spellcaster harnesses/manipulates or draws in for the purpose of creating an effect (what we call the spell). It's important to remember that Sorcerers specialise in a form of magic that deals with the nature of the Weave, and directly accesses the Weave itself, and is based around their relationship with the Weave. The spell that was mentioned, Block Weave (Dif 6), is one that makes perfect sense within the context of Sorcery and how the Tradition is defined, and it's easy to see Sorcery having a spell that can block or interfere with the Weave on the part of other spellcasters.

Hullo, Nestor,



That's certainly another way of handling and seeing the situation, mate. No argument with this solution, either.

By this rationale, Sorcery would also be able to make it easier.

Leaving that, and descriptions of sorcery affecting the nature of the caster making them unable to access the weave, which is outside its purview, I just want to comment on the image of the barrier. This is all very much my reaction to it, and is in the sense of good-natured debate. As with all free-form spell-casting systems, there are areas of conception which do not translate to all players equally, and this is one of those areas for me.

As an image, creating a barrier between the sorcerer and the weave seems to be a non-starter as is described, as the energy is quite simply everywhere. It also leads to the idea of completely cutting people off from their ability to cast spells. This includes trying to resist or breakthrough the effect.

An alternate image, one that is subtly put forward by both Nestor and JohnK is of disrupting and meddling with (crossing the streams! ) the flow of energy to and from the sorcerer, which interferes and possibly prevents the casting of spells. That accomplishes the same ends, and does not produce incongruities. In other words, it interferes with the way the energy flows, not preventing it from flowing it all. A small thing, but... then again, not so small.

Blocking or Barring in this case is not the same as denying an element to an elementalist. That element is a finite, resource in clearly defined spatial limits. The weave on the other hand is... well, not. I suppose the same can also be said of animists and necromancers.

It's not the effect I have a problem with, actually - It's just the description of it.

Maybe I am tied to too many fantasy novel descriptions of magic and magic use, but I can see Sorcerers being able to create a "null" magic barrier around another mage, physically/psychically/spiritually preventing her from accessing the Weave. This has a visual effect (unless extra successes are spent to make it not so) and can be resisted (with Willpower?? or an opposed magic skill roll???). But in the end, I see this as a Sorcerous skin of null energy that the affected castor has to break through (extended roll maybe??). Since all Traditions access the Weave through the blinders of their own training, this would be a purely Sorcerous effect based on the Weave itself - thus justifying Sorcery being able to Disrupt all Traditions. It is, in effect, doing the same thing: inhibiting the recipient's access to the base energy that they use to cast spells.

Clearly this is a difficult spell to cast and thus has a base difficulty of 6, making it impractical to cast except in desperation. Given that level of difficulty, I think I am fine with cutting someone off from the Weave (or whatever they call it in their Tradition) by imposing an "absorption" or "negative Weave energy" barrier around the recipient. If that is accepted as a base proposal, how does a PC so affected break through it?

Hullo, Runeslinger,



Not so much make it easier, as make it possible in the first place. Simply because Sorcery is the only Tradition that is oriented directly around the uses and understanding of the Weave, among other things.



Understandable, I suppose. I think the best bet on this is to wait and see what the folks from Greymalkin have to say on the subject. That said, I pretty much know where I stand on the matter and how I rule on the subject at hand in my own games.

JohnK ~ That is pretty much the crux of it right there. It is a wonderful blessing to be able to let others take their games where the manifesting story and entertainment lead.

However, to address something specific, you mentioned that sorcery is not so much able to improve access to the weave, but is able to block it altogether. From my point of view, that would be unbalanced in a metaphysical sense (not game balance sense).

If in the Before Sorcerers could coordinate with other casters to aid in their endeavors, providing a bonus, and could also work to interfere with those efforts, imposing a penalty or if successful enough a lack of ability to work magic at all, how can we rationalize that only one of those effects survives in the After...? There is more than one example in the tradition write-up of interfering with magic, and these can of course have lengthy durations like any other spell and imply an ongoing influence over the way the target interacts with the energy of the Weave - yet, the opposite effect is suggested in the write-up as being 'no longer possible because of the instability of the Weave.'

The way I see it, the actual effect is "altering the flow of weave energy.' Its use is not relevant. If a caster can latch on to weave energy and cause it to be turbulent and unruly (the L5 Effect) increasing Burn earned by an opponent, can that caster not also smooth it, and thereby reduce the likelihood of incurring it? [To be clear, I would not necessarily see these opposite effects as being perfect reflections of each other, as it is much easier to sow chaos than impose order, but for the purposes of discussion, this stuff appeals to me]. Granted, the two clear examples are placed at Dif5 and Dif6 in the examples, and so by extension we can assume that perhaps the Base Difficulty would be so high to make any positive effect unlikely, but...

Generating 6 successes blocks a caster from casting spells for an entire combat or scene...

Really, the only way I can get my head around this is if all the energy surrounding the targeted caster were compelled to be passive, non-responsive for the duration of the effect. If such effects are possible, then a certain amount of calming seems possible, too.

Anyway, that is a different subject really~

Hullo, Runeslinger,



That's one of the advantages of such a flexible game design, imo, as well as being an aspect of the free-form style of magic that Desolation uses. While there likely is a "solid gold" answer to this question that you folks have raised, the game system and rules do not preclude the GM and his or her players coming up with their own answer to this query and running with that.



Ah, but the metaphysical sense isn't really important here, unless you're compulsive about that sort of stuff in your gaming. Game balance, at least for a starting campaign, is more critical, since it's important that all the players and the GM be on the same page.

That said, whatever makes you think that Sorcery can't improve access to the Weave? While it was done all the time in the Before, and yes, it's harder to do in the After because of the unpredictability of the Weave, nothing says that it still isn't possible. At least from my own game perspective, it is.



True. But every GM will have to define how things work in respect to the Weave in their game and campaigns. And Sorcery is likely the most difficult Tradition of Magic to get one's head around in that regard, I suspect.

Like I said, a lot of ways of interpreting stuff with this particular Tradition in the game.