Hello all,
This is my first post, and my first contact with the game so bear with me, if I say something wrong.

I was drawn to this game a while back,so recently I bought the core book and the Journeys supplement(as I think I will be also using the rules for my home-brew world)
and am now in the process of reading them(not enough free time so it might take a few days)

So the queries I have for today-after going over a few basic stuff, so I might be missing bits- are regarding magic traditions:

1)Sea Magic: My world is water based so naturally there are Ship Mages.The closest thing being the kit that was introduced way back in ADND 2.5 if anyone remembers.
I was wondering if I should introduce that as a tradition.I know a lot of people will say that elementalism(water and air) covers that but a ship mage should be
able to do much more than just command elements.They could summon water creaters,create energy barriers that protect ships or develop offensive magic to destroy them etc

2)Bards: Again I think Beguilers could fill the niche,but maybe I want something much broader than just mind manipulation.Bards in my world originally could
sing in a way that could even affect the weather,some of them filling the role of a ship mage, albeit differently.

So I guess I need some help with what direction I should take,
Cheers

Hullo, Erevos,



Welcome to the Desolation RPG forums, and to having discovered the game. Always good to see a new face around here!



Don't forget to pick up the Survivors supplement for the game. It's got some excellent material in it that will benefit you quite a bit as well, with a whole bunch of new Communities, as well as sample characters of different types.



One of the things about the Desolation game system that is so cool is that you can make additions or delete stuff that you don't like. There's no reason why you can't introduce new Tradition of magic to the game, as long as you keep them consistent in feel and style with what's in the book. Sea Magics sounds interesting enough, but seems to simulate or duplicate several functions of existing Traditions in the game. So, my question here would be what makes Sea Magics unique? And, given that Traditions are limited to specific races in the game, who can use this type of magic?



One of my favourite rpgs out there was the old DRAGONQUEST rpg produced by SPI back in the day, and one of the additions I made to the College system of magics was a Bardic College. So I have a fondness for Bard Magics, where the power of music allows one to create magical effects. The question again becomes why have a Bardic Tradition, and what sorts of effects do you see it having? And again, what do you see as being the Race that can use this Tradition?

Anyway, just my $0.02. Hope this helps.

Thank you


Sea mages could work like a Sorcery specialization in regards to the Nautical(weather control,prediction,ship to ship combat).They could also be involved with star magic..
Most probably originally came from Sea Elves but evolved with the Humans.

I was thinking of keeping the origins of Traditions in association with a certain Race,but mainly as fluff.Given the age we'll be playing in my world, I think most-not all- Traditions can be assessable to all races.Again this will have to be role-played in regards to background,mentors and contacts etc
I don't think I will break anything by doing so.
Off course: 1) I wont change anything for the Desolation universe itself, the setting is amazing as is
2) I will have to finish all the books first before starting to apply any changes



College systems,l hear Ars Magic has a similar system?
As you said,I am fond of Bards too.So the answer is really easy for this one: why not? Manipulating the weave via a technique concerning singing and performing could be cool in by itself.
And really there is no limit to the magics one could use,from the obvious basic buffering spells to summoning and sonic related ones.Probably originated from the Land Elves.

I have other traditions from my custom races.
They are somewhat different to most High fantasy rpgs, so I will have no problems fitting them in there.
They are also specifically tied to a certain race so its very consistent with the core rules of Desolation.
These two though are somewhat more difficult to tackle and I wanted some advice from this systems experts

Hullo, Erevos,



You're welcome.




Hmm, the idea of Sea Magics appeals to me, and I wouldn't mind seeing how you write it up when you're done.

I think the types of spells and the like available to the Tradition will have to be tied down when you establish in the write-up what the function of the magic is, as per the other Traditions found in Desolation, as the Traditions have a limited form of magic in terms of what they are capable of doing. Not sure whether you should combine it with Star Magics.



Given that you're running the game in your own game world (correct, yes?), doing away with the Racial limitations of the Traditions won't do the game world any ill, but bear in mind the character will still need the appropriate Magic Skill and the appropriate Magical Talent as well.



I agree, as since it's not the world of Desolation per se, but it means anyone else wanting to adapt the material from your stuff will face a bit more of a task.



Regarding 1), well yes, yes, it's absolutely brilliantly amazing!

Regarding 2), yes, that would be wise.



To DRAGONQUEST? Yes, in some regards, but very much more mythical and historical in nature.



While one would certainly define the magic as manipulating the Weave through singing (with perhaps a bonus for Performance), there is the fact that each magical Tradition in Desolation has a specific function. I wouldn't want to see Bardic Magic being too general or powerful, as that would belittle and diminish the other Traditions that one has. It'll be interesting to see how you interpret Bardic Magic for this purpose.



But there should be limitations and definitions of what Bardic Magic is used for, otherwise the Tradition becomes too powerful.

Oh no, I wouldn't want any tradition to be more powerful than another obviously.
Is there a home-brewing guide for traditions I could use?

Hullo, Erevos,



Quite right. The keys to remember with the Magic Traditions in Desolation is that 1) each Tradition is unique in what the magic does, though not mutually exclusive in terms of specific effects. It's the manner in which the spells work, the background on how users of said magic view the Weave, that makes the magic different from the other Traditions; and 2) the spells available to any Tradition are strictly limited by what the type of magic in question does.



Not that I know of.

I noticed there are no Healers in the traditional sense(apart from Animism and Necromancy)
For the High fantasy version maybe an order of mage-healers could be made,unless a miracle system is introduced

Hullo, Erevos,



Indeed, there are not. That said, a character who has the Medicine Skill will be a Healer of sorts, of course.

From the magical point of view, I'm glad that there are no healers other than Animists and Necromancers, since it gives the game a very non-traditional, non-D&D feel to it. I don't think it's ever been explained why there are no other types of Healing magics out there. I always thought Sorcery could be used for the purpose, using raw Weave to close wounds and the like, but that's another matter.



Perhaps, perhaps not in terms of the mage-healers in the Before. As for the miracle concepts and stuff, read the chapter on Religion again, and look at the True Faith Talent.

About the Desolation Universe I agree...
Speaking of Sorcery...I have a question:
From the description it seems everything in it is energy based(due to the weave and all) could that mean that's the only way spells manifest inside that Tradition?
For instance if you want to cast the traditional fireball you could have a magical explosion with the same effects but not flame-based?Unless you have Elementalism as well




I havent actually read the Religion chapter, I skimmed and it seemed fluff so I left it for after I finish with the crunch bits of the books

My Ubiquity dice arrived in the mail today

As for your question on creating your own traditions. Pg 33 of Survivors has a small blurb with a few questions to help flesh out new traditions. Right after the new traditions Blood Rune (which can also mend) and Shadow.

As for Bardic magic, you may not need to make it a tradition. Music/Song/Dance is inspirational/threatenting in it's self. Have your player tell you the desired effect and make them roll a performance. While there may be no actual magic to an Orc's war drum, it can still strike fear into the hearts of it's foes. Limit it to minor boons and banes, to keep it from overpowering other traditions that add the same effects. Do not allow it to completely control the mind, as a beguiler, but allow for bonuses when using appropriate skills against an engrossed audience.

Just my thoughts.

Hullo, Erevos,



Glad to hear it.



That would certainly seem to be the case, as far as I'm concerned, though I have ruled the "energy" can take other forms from time to time, depending on what the player character is trying to accomplish and all.



The chapter on Religion is definitely not fluff. While people's faith has been sorely tested by the Night of Fire, religion can still play a huge role in the game, especially if one happens to be close to Nascency, or if one's dwarf has a strong belief in the Five Pillars, and so forth. And there's more to this chapter than just religion, it's got material that sorts of fits in with social studies as well.

Hullo, Mannik,



Yep, between that material and the way the various Traditions for the game are written up, one should be able to create new Traditions, if one so wishes.



This is an approach I actually prefer to Bardic magics myself, rather than a new Tradition. That said, I can see a GM creating it as a Tradition anyway, to fit the context of their game. The modular nature of the magic system, combined with its free-form style and feel, makes this easy to do in Desolation.

I am all about going free-form and imaginative the whole way..that's why some limits don't sit well with me,but on the designer side I understand them.
If I give access to any form of manipulation to the sorcerers,which I am all for btw, then a player could argue: "whats the point in Elementalism?"

Unless of course you explain Elementalism as this specialized Tradition who fares way better in the elements than the others,so a sorcerer can pull a fire spell through the weave as well but maybe its not so powerful etc

As for the Bard Magic originally I thought it could work as sorcery but via a performance skill.Now the more I think about it, the more I believe it belongs in a different Tradition.Finding balance can be tough...but Bardic Music can always be in the place of other traditions.

So there are actual rules for divine magic and miracles in it?