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| Regarding failure of a spell http://greymalkindesigns.com/phpbb4/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=382 |
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| Author: | Rhetorical Heretic [ Fri May 21, 2010 6:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Regarding failure of a spell |
Hello all,  I am fairly new to Desolation and have been reading it a lot these past weeks, so I have a question regarding page 131 of the core book. Under Step 6: Resolve the spell effect, one of the four outcomes is: "Failure - Not enough successes, the spell fails, but may have limited effects." How do you handle these limited effects, do you just reduced duration, damage, targets effected etc or something completly different?. Any thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated. |
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| Author: | Gilgamesh [ Fri May 21, 2010 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Regarding failure of a spell |
I handle in a quite easy way, either the spell works or it doesn't. The limited effect maybe shows up in my description of the outcome of the spell but nothing more. |
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| Author: | Arsenal [ Fri May 21, 2010 12:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Regarding failure of a spell |
I handle it by having the spell manifest in some visible way, but with no external effects. So if a damaging spell was attempted and the character failed, it may become nothing more than a phantom bolt of energy that never reaches the target. This ensures that something happens so that others can tell magic was used so they can respond, ahem, accordingly. For more creative uses this might become a different issue entirely, in which case I take it as thus: if the spell is meant to do something physical, let some semblance of it remain (a visible manifestation, sparks, noises, etc), if not, nothing happens. |
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| Author: | Rhetorical Heretic [ Mon May 24, 2010 1:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Regarding failure of a spell |
I thank you for your prompt answers on the spell failure, it seems that the consensus of opinion is the spell fails with only a slight visual or sound effect at best. I think using that method seems the simplest solution, I am greatful for your insight guys.
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| Author: | JohnK [ Wed May 26, 2010 11:14 am ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Regarding failure of a spell | |||||||||
Hullo, Rhetorical Heretic,
The manner in which I handle the failure of a spell depends most often on how difficult the spell was to begin with. A spell with a Difficulty of 6 should have a much more interesting failed spell effect than a spell that is Difficulty 1. Then it also depends on the type of spell that is being used. As an example, if the Difficulty of the spell was missed by only 1 or 2 on a spell that does damage, I may allow the failed spell to work with a minimal effect or with an effect that is similar to a spell of that Tradition with a lower Difficulty. It really depends on how you, as GM, want to handle this. The nature of the Desolation magic system is free-form, and I think a lot of folks who run the game interpret this rule (and all the other rules along these lines in the game) flexibly. That's really the key to the magic system here: flexibility. |
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| Author: | Rhetorical Heretic [ Wed May 26, 2010 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Regarding failure of a spell |
Hi JohnK, I did consider using things like lesser damage and such, but on reading the previous posts and thinking a little while longer I decided against that, on the basis that when someone swings their sword and misses, by even one success they do no damage and the only effect then is the wind felt when the sword goes whistling passed the opponent. I do however thank you kindly Sir for your thoughts on the subject.
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| Author: | JohnK [ Fri May 28, 2010 2:58 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Regarding failure of a spell | |||||||||
Hullo, Rhetorical,
Not the same thing. The rules for Combat are explicit in that when you do not get any successes, an attack with a weapon is a failure. On the other hand, the section on Magic is also pretty explicit about the lesser effects. Just doesn't *describe* or provide examples of them.
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| Author: | Rhetorical Heretic [ Sun May 30, 2010 3:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Regarding failure of a spell |
Hi JohnK, I have to agree with you in that if you take the statement on page 130 under Magic Skill: "Unlike other skills where the player typically either succeeds or fails, the Magic Skill always produces an effect. Although the exact goals of the caster may not be met, the caster is rewarded with something - even when only one success is rolled.", this is very clear, even if you fail as a magic user you are rewarded as long as you have rolled one success. Now on the other hand, if you look on page 169 it states under Degrees of Success, where it talks about casting a spell: "However, failures can result in unexpected and sometimes dangerous magical side-effects that the GM will determine.". These two parts of the rules seem to contradict each other, one gives something good, the reward, the other gives something bad, the unexpected, possibly dangerous side-effect. This is where I don't see spell failure quite so clearly as you do, which is why I asked for some help in this regard. I will give it a try with the reward and then the side-effect, I may even use the reward and the side-effect and see which suits best.
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| Author: | Scrumptrilescent [ Sun May 30, 2010 12:33 pm ] | |||||||||
| Post subject: | Re: Regarding failure of a spell | |||||||||
That, right there, is your answer to the confusion. Emphasis on unexpected and sometimes. The spell not doing what the player intended counts as unexpected; less damage, little effect, light shows, no effect, etc... As for the dangerous side effects, note the wording. Spells don't always cause severely nagative effects. You could come up with a system to decide when ill effects take place. Personally, I'm an advocate of die roll generators, but that's me. You could also use degrees of failure - so many fails and it has this effect. Dangerous side effects could include; the spell backfiring, targeting an ally, shotting off into a cliff side - causing a mudslide, etc... Both can happen, to GM discretion. |
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| Author: | JohnK [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Regarding failure of a spell |
Hullo, Rhetorical, Scrump hit it right on the button... I have nothing more to add to this, other than to say that experience at running Desolation will be the best guide you can have. Once you run the game, you'll see how magic works better than just reading the rules and all. Anyway, 'nuff said.
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