Portland, OR isn't that great of an area for Desolation either. The store I frequent most doesn't know much about it, and they seem to have the only copies here. It's very much the Pathfinder and D&D 4.0 thing here. Pretty much the same senario as Seattle, it seems.

As for my finding of it, I was browsing the selection and saw the words "Fantasy" and "Apocalypse" in the same phrase. Personally, I got tired of seeing all the gun toting apocalyptic games (Including Fallout, even though I love it). I love that it pitches a niche, however in doing so, I think it limits it's potential slightly - even with the newer books promoting playing in the Before. First impressions last...

As for the groups I run I have; 3 that have fallen heads over heels for it (not including me), two of those want to start running games themselves, 2 whom love the amount of roleplaying tools built into the system, 2 whom love the speed of play, 2 whom are indifferent, and 1 that doesn't mind it but would rather play Pathfinder (he is a munchkin-rule junkie though). So over all, it has been recieved very well. Only one of the people in the group has ever played dice pools (one of the roleplaying advocates), and the others are all D&D or Pathfinder kids.

I think a problem is a lot of new players (kids) play for the novelty of playing Dungeons & Dragons. Don't think they are really into finding out what they really want to play quite yet.

Just my half drunken thoughts...

Hullo, Morton,

I'll address each of your points below.



Demos of the game and convention scenarios are being run all over the place. Just look at the main folder here pertaining to the game demos and the like out there. I've run and seen enough demos and convention games of Desolation, and have seen pretty much positive feedback from each game. Heck, some of the games I've run at CanGames I've had to turn players away for lack of space.

Marketing, on the other hand, is another matter entirely. Game companies have budgets, and they want to try to live within those budgets. The more money you put into marketing, the less money you have for game product. And this is even more true for the small indie rpg producers like GMD. Frankly, marketing is also very much word of mouth, and that relates to your second point below.



As Nestor pointed out, small indie companies like GMD can't compete with the big boys in terms of the sheer bucks. 'Nuff said.

When it comes to RPG.net, frankly while I read it from time to time, notably on subjects that interest me, that website and forums has a very biased group of people who like certain types of games. Desolation isn't one of them, for its perceived lack of certain elements. But there hasn't been a Desolation thread there in some time. Perhaps it's time for a new one?



Every gamer has types of dice mechanics that they like, and types that they don't. I like Shadow, Sword & Spell, which uses a 2d12 game mechanic, and there are folks who don't. I'm not a fan of the d20 mechanics, either. On the subject of dice pools there's no winner or loser, just a market that supports certain games that favour dice of a specific type.



Savage Worlds is a generic system that has been made workable through a lot of hard work and through a lot of GURPS-like game products and supplements by the folks that own the system. I don't like SW all that much myself, preferring the speed and mechanics of Ubiquity, but fan conversions can't be taken into account here. And let's face it, not everyone likes the same game mechanics.

Besides, if people were running SW: Desolation, through a fan-made conversion to it, since I doubt that the GMD folks would authorise a line of SW: Desolation products, would you complain? They're still gaming Desolation in one form or another, and if it draws attention back to the parent game, can this be bad?



Nestor actually hit this one on the head, and I have nothing much to add to it. I will say that most of the Monster Manual beasties and creatures don't really fit the Desolation world view all that well, but I can see folks converting stuff to Ubiquity for use in a more mainstream Ubiquity fantasy rpg. Or figuring out a way whereby some Monster Manual creatures do fit into the Desolation world. That said, this game of ours is quite unique in a lot of ways, and standard creatures out of D&D and other more mundane, well-loved fantasy systems don't really fit all that well into Scondera. My $0.02.



Ubiquity actually isn't all that new. The game mechanics have been around for 4 years or so (?) with the HEX game system, and that game's been translated into two other languages already. There is also the third Ubiquity game, ALL FOR ONE: REGIME DIABOLIQUE, which is finding a niche for itself as well. This is pretty good, methinks.

Hullo, Nestor,



And ironic, isn't it, given that Seattle is home to Exile Games and several other Indie gaming companies these days.



What you said here. 'Nuff said.

Hullo, Scrump,



And yet here in Ottawa, there are three stores that I know of that carry the game, one a Comics shoppe, and the three stores sell it rather regularly. Part of this has to do with the fact that I was the one who introduced the game, and ran demos fairly regularly in one of these shoppes when the game first came out. And the game gets a good turnout every time I run it at CanGames here during May convention season. I suspect that it varies from city to city.



Any game that fits itself into a niche, such as "post-apocalyptic fantasy", limits its audience, obviously. But there's more to Desolation than just that tag, and the shame is that too many people don't see it.




So, what's your beef or problem with the game?



Bear in mind, too, that the new kids coming to the hobby are bombarded with the popular, more mainstream rpgs out there, such as D&D. These kids aren't necessarily going to want a niche game such as Desolation, and even if they do, it's up to us, the fans of the game, to introduce it to them. For me, at conventions, the term "post-apocalyptic *fantasy*" gets them every time.

Just my $0.02.

I have absolutely no problem with the game or system. I meant 3 others aside from me, if I hadn't fallen they wouldn't have found out about it.

I suppose, basically, what I'm saying is I wish I had others in the area who enjoy it as thoroughly as I do because I generally can't take the time to run games beyond the 3 I have going.

I think we agree on many points, just slightly different ways of saying so.

Hullo, Scrump,



Ah, okay, sorry about that. Obviously, I must have read parts of the posts wrong, but that's just the state of my life at the moment.



I think that if you like Desolation to the extent that you say you do, you'd make some time to fit the game into your personal schedule. This is a game that works best as a campaign, simply because players have long-term goals in it, beyond the day-to-day survival of course, and because the story of how communities change and evolve and how the people in your version of Scondera adapt to life in the aftermath of the Night of Fire works best in a game that runs for some time. I've seen players who aren't enchanted with the game at first develop a real love of Desolation when they start to play because of the simplicity of the game mechanics, and the sheer interactive storytelling that the game offers in its post-apocalyptic setting, and because of how different this game world is from the standard fantasy and post-apocalyptic settings.



hehe I'll take your word for it.

Though you may not have meant it, that almost seems like an attack... I would say that 8 to 12 hours a week of actual game is a pretty sufficient portion of my personal schedule (2 groups bi weekly, 1 group weekly - 4 to 6 hours each game). Granted, I won't have much time for playing in the summer due to 50-70 hour work weeks. Keep in mind, I have a family that I have to spend time with, and as of about 2 weeks ago - a house to tend as well. I play Desolation and spread the word because I enjoy it, a benifit of that is it makes Greymalkin Designs money for more product - not the other way around.

I mean no disrespect, but be careful with accusations. Not everyone has the time or energy to devote to building up to what could be. I'm sure that even the staff at Greymalkin are in a similar boat.

Hullo,Scrump,



I apologise, Scrump, I didn't mean it to sound like an accusation.

I also run two gaming groups, one on Friday nights and one on Sunday afternoons, and have life and personal responsibilities aside from the gaming groups. If I like a game system to the extent that I like Desolation I fit it into my schedule, my *gaming* schedule that is, which is what I meant to say in the previous post.

John K,

You misunderstood me on fan conversions. I mean converting other settings to Ubiquity. Savage Worlds got popular due to having Star Wars, SLA Industries and other fan project converted into the system. I don't want Savage Worlds Desolation, I want Star Wars Ubiquity (Actually I don't really care about Star Wars but you get the point).

Also don't get me wrong we have a good chunk of open minded gamers here but when I look at what has caught on (Savage Worlds, FATE, Polaris) The Ubiquity games have not caught the local gamer fancy. A lot of it is about getting enough interest to get someone to try it which is where I feel it fails right now. Every person I have ran it for has loved it but getting people to play is like pulling teeth. After running several months of awesome D&D/Shadowrun/Whatever game, I can usually get most of the players to say "well, ok we'll play a one shot of Desolation just to humor the GM". Its not the setting because several love Fallout, Dark Sun, or some Dark Fantasy setting. Usually I get the push back when they hear it uses the same system as HEX (not that they have played HEX, they just hear bad things about huge dice pools or a d2 system where you always succeed) I don't know how/why HEX got a bad rap at the FLGS here but it did. Thats the pushback I have to overcome and some youtube, d20 conversion, fan conversions, etc would help me promote Desolation to people who otherwise would not pick it up.

I don't think Desolation is perfect but for me its the closest thing to a perfect world/rules fantasy game I have found, close enough I don't bother to house rule (which is unusual for me to not have 1 or 2 house rules). I'd love to pull more people in but I gotta get people over the not interested hurdle.

Hullo, Morton,



Well, yes, I guess I did misunderstand you.

The popularity of Savage Worlds was partially due to the fact that Pinnacle made the conscious decision to create a generic game that could be used for various settings, and then proceeded to market a few of these settings. The thing is that many of the SW settings are licensed ones. Not including the hundreds of settings that fans of the game mechanics have come up with.

The difference is that while Exile Games created a generic set of rules called the Ubiquity system, they didn't do a generic set of rules, the way Pinnacle did, instead created the Hollow Earth Expedition game, and then a couple of other folks came along and decided to license some stuff, and that's how we have Desolation and All For One. I suspect there are other fan conversions of stuff to Ubiquity out there, but haven't consciously gone looking for them, to be honest. Some of them can be found in the forums over on the Exile Games site.

However, the fact of the matter is that in forums, discussion groups, etc., Ubiquity does not get the attention or market share that Savage Worlds does, and that's part of where the problem lies. However, that said, we're getting off topic here, since these forums are meant to be devoted to the Desolation rpg and topics about that game, and not really to other stuff.

No worries, it happens.

On the bright side, I think I have one of my players talked into taking over a group and running it mid week. That might free up a slot on the weekend, I might be able to expand - providing I don't lose more of the free time I have to life.

Hullo, Scrump,



That sounds like it's good news, mate.

Hope you get to run some Desolation in the near future.

Every Weekend 8}

Excellent news to hear, mate! And when you do run it, please post some stuff here in the appropriate folder for synopses of games run!